jazz music feature
Phil Bancroft
Tom Bragg meets Scottish saxophonist Phil Bancroft
Phil Bancroft has been a mainstay of the Scottish scene since the late 1980's. Originally part of that group put together by John Rae that included some of most important musicians in Scottish jazz today, Bancroft has since become a pioneering improvisational jazz performer. He played at the Jazz Festival this year with Paul Harrison on piano, Aidan O’Donnell on bass and Stu Richie on drums. Prior to that gig Tom Bragg asked him some questions.
TW: You came to wider attention in the late 80s with John Rae, was that the first thing you did?
PB: I played with a big band that won the John Dankworth Prize when I was about 16, and as a result of that we went down to London and did a broadcast from Golders Green - so that was my first real outing to the world. I also played with my brother and dad in a family band, and when I went to Cambridge University I was in a band down there too. So I had done a few things before, but the John Rae thing was the first major band I was in.
TW: What was the year that actually got together?
PB: Crikey, it was when I was 21 so it would have been about 87, 88 - something like that.
TW: And what was the scene like back then?
PB: Well it was still very early, I mean for the Scottish scene, there weren’t that many players around. There were a few older generation people but there wasn’t that much of a thing. And then there was this crop of musicians that all appeared at the same time; there was me, John Rae, Brian Kellock, Colin Steele, Kevin MacKenzie.
Kenny, the bass player Kenny Ellis, was a bit older but everyone else was within a few years of each other. We were all 19, 20, 21 and met on the very small Scottish scene that was there at the time. Everyone was playing standards pretty much, or there were a few bands playing mainstream stuff, trad stuff, but there wasn’t much mainstream jazz going on in Scotland at that point. Tommy Smith had just gone to Berkley a couple of years before so he wasn’t really part of that, he was slightly separate.
TW: So, how did it work?
PB: Well, we all met up and started playing and we were writing our own stuff, I was writing a lot of it, but we played original music. It was a good band, everyone wanted to play. And we were young and it was fresh and foolish and we didn’t know any better. We were slightly fearless and we did quite a lot of stuff; we played all over the place, we played in Europe and went to Canada then did an album.
TW: What happened to that?
PB: The album never got released, unfortunately. We did really quite a nice album, then the company who were going to release it went bankrupt through nothing to do with us just before it was about to be released. It was a complete disaster, and basically brought about the end of the band. The band had been a great experience and we played a lot of good music and all got going as professional jazz musicians. It just, sort of, appeared out of nowhere and was very exciting to be part of. But we had been waiting around for 18 months once the album had been made, to see if it was going to get released, and once it finally died we were all knackered and demoralised so the whole thing split up at that point. That was about four years later, about 91, 92.
TW: You went all over with those guys, and have gigged all over the place since then as well, in New York, Amsterdam, and townships in South Africa. Where was your favourite place to play?
I like playing in the street. I did a lot of that when I was younger and it's really fun. And I played a lot on the street in South Africa, which was amazing. But there are so many places to play that are amazing; there's a really nice club in Aberdeen called the Blue Lamp which has a great vibe. Pizza Express in Soho is good too. Actually, I can't really answer that question, I've enjoyed playing everywhere. It tends to be a combination of the people and the acoustics; or just the approach of the people in the club. If they understand how things work it can be really exciting. In fact, I played in Wakefield recently, in the rugby club there, which was very nice.
TW: This year's Jazz Festival’s been marred by a recent tragic event. How do you feel about the death of Esbjörn Svensson, who was meant to play as part the band e.s.t.? What kind of loss is it personally and for jazz in general?
PB: For me personally there are a number of levels. We were supposed to do a gig supporting them [e.s.t.] with the AAB trio, which I was really excited about, so it's a bit of a strange feeling, because it's had a very direct impact on something that's really happening.
I think he was real. He was an inspiring figure in a number of ways; in the way he managed to create music that brought a lot of people in and really tapped into a huge audience - which is unusual for a real improvising musician. And I think there's a number of factors to that as well; he kept with the same band, he seemed to be a really down-to-earth humble guy, and was always a nice man. I think he'd established a major career, and even though he was only in his mid-forties he'd really done it, he'd really got there.
But most of all, from what I understand, he was diving with his son when he died and it's just very sad. It’s very sad for him to be cut down in his prime and it's very sad for his son to have gone through that experience and those two things are the two biggest things.
Musically, obviously, you question what he would have done and what directions he might have gone in: I don't know. But it’s a big loss to European jazz because he was definitely one of the leaders who had found a way of really tapping into a wider audience, of getting his music out to a wider audience, and that is very unusual.
TW: About the quartet you're with this year. How did you get together?
PB: I’ve got a new quartet which is Paul Harrison on piano, and Aidan O’Donnell on bass and Stu Richie on drums and they're all part of the Scottish team.
Although Paul was born in Manchester he has lived in Edinburgh for the last 10-15 years. Aidan grew up in Scotland and very much grew up within the Scottish scene, although he was living in London and is now living in New York. I met him when he was about 14 or 15. Stu's from Aberdeen and again I've known him for a long time.
They're all people I've either worked with in different contexts or wanted to work with for some time, but I wanted to do a different band - I wanted to do something with much more structured compositions and chord sequences. My previous band was improvisational and the compositions were very open and I wanted to make something with more structure to guide the music and make it clearer for the audience, and easier for them to relate to.
These are the guys I really wanted to play with. Each one is a beautiful player and they have their own identity. We started this about 18 months ago and did a tour in December 2007. In January this year we recorded, so the album should come out, hopefully, this Autumn.
TW: Tell us about the album
PB: The songs were composed over the last year and are from the momentum of me wanting to take what I was doing in a different direction for a while.
For a number of years I've explored more free environments and more and more sparse compositions so it's left up to the individual musicians, and I wanted the pendulum to swing back. So I put together a new type of band. I wanted to have a piano player in it, and have it a bit more in the mainstream of contemporary jazz.
There's one track on the album that I’ve played with a previous quartet but pretty much everything else is new stuff. It's all got chord sequences attached to it, some stuff's a bit freer, but there's a range. It's all quite melodic and structured but, to be honest, that gives you a chance to deconstruct things, so it's not entirely straight down the middle.
There's one track that's an attempt to look at... well, it's almost like a folk tune, but played with a classic swing feel. There are a few tracks that are really swing tracks, which I haven't done for a while. It's really just the next stage of what I was doing, and what I wanted to express as a composer and as a saxophone player. It's showing a different side to my saxophone playing, I guess, but I think people who are not necessarily into jazz are going to say: "Well that's really nice". We’ve got this beautiful music and I think it's quite uplifting.
TW: What are you most looking forward to about this year's Festival?
PB: I'm most looking forward to playing the music. There's always a great buzz round the city and playing some great music with some great musicians, hopefully for good audiences, and having a great time.
TW: And what are you least looking forward to about this year's festival?
PB: Probably hangovers.
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Phil Bancroft performed at the Edinburgh Jazz & Blues Festival 2008.
published: Oct-2008
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